So all day I've seen various different people on my Facebook liking various different posts on the wall of "Wear Pants to Church". I thought about weighing in on the wall but realized, I was not going to get anywhere with those people, and seeing some of the feeds, people were actually quite disrespectful. I think fighting and arguing over something like that is exactly what the Church would not want to have happen. So, I decided to write a blog post about it. Since it's been forever since I posted, it was probably about time anyway. Also, I'm further procrastinating writing my last final. Winning!
Here's my take on the whole feminist push going on within the Church right now. First of all, I get it. We women are powerful creatures that can do most anything a man can do. I've done things my whole life that were typically considered "men's". I rode dirtbikes growing up. I can tell you what most any car is and what model it is. I was a volunteer firefighter. I can tell you what engine is in any of the various makes of diesel trucks. I don't sew, I don't knit, and I definitely don't scrapbook. At one point, I even looked into joining the Navy. Does this make me any less of a woman? Absolutely not. Does that mean that I don't appreciate a guy being a guy? Nope sure doesn't. I disagree with policy in intramural sports that say that the woman's points count twice where as a man's only counts once. I fully believe that if a girl wants to play with the boys, she better be able to compete with the boys. If she can't, she shouldn't feel oppressed or discriminated against because she is not allowed to do something. There are inherent things that men are better at then women. That's ok. Guess what. There are TONS of things that women are better at then men. It's biology people. We are different. Our bodies are put together different, we have different parts, our brains even function differently. This is a good thing. Ancient Native American traditions, ancient Chinese traditions, and creation stories focus on the duality of everything. Not to compete with each other but to compliment each other. Why we can't accept that there are differences and that it is not a bad thing is beyond me.
You know who oppresses women these days? Women. We look down on each other for wanting to be "just a mother". Since when did this become a derogatory thing? Since when did this become a concept that made an entire religion wrong and oppressive because they celebrate this God given right to create life and raise the next generation? When you are dead and gone, chances are, no one is going to remember what your occupation was. They aren't going to remember what your income was the year you turned 35. What people will remember, and what will live on for generations, is the lessons you teach them as a mother. The values you instill in a child that they then teach to their children, and their children's children. This is greatness my friends.
If you choose not to have children, great, that's your prerogative. I won't judge you for that, or think you're some psycho feminist that needs to be tranquilized. However, don't judge a Church that does nothing but celebrate the role women play and have always played in the world. They created one of the first ever women's organizations. From the time of Joseph Smith, where he revered his wife so much, as to go to the Lord for inspiration for her time and time again. Shoot, because she complained about chewing tobacco, we now have the Word of Wisdom. Women have always played and will continue to play an integral role in this Church. I've never felt that we don't get enough "air time" at Conference. Shoot, we have our own conferences. There isn't a young men's broadcast, but there is a young woman's broadcast. You don't see the Young Men all up in arms about that now do you? Anyone ever been to Time Out for Women? Awesomeness just for us ladies. I've even heard Church leaders say that it is the job of the fathers to take the children outside during sacrament when they are disruptive. So tell me again, how are we oppressed in our religion?
I have never felt anything but exactly what the Church teaches that I am. A daughter of my Heavenly Father who he loves me very much. That doesn't mean he loves his sons any less. A love for one, does not take away a love for another, just as my feminine attributes do not take away from my male counterparts' in any way. We have a divine purpose as women, we don't need the priesthood to fulfill our divine roles. The men do. Why begrudge them this gift when we have so many of our own? We simply sound like a bunch of spoiled brats that want everything that someone else has, as well as what is given to us.
If you want to wear pants to church on Sunday, more power to you. I have no idea what that is doing for your cause. All I know is, I base what I wear to church to take the sacrament as what I would wear to the temple. After all, the Sacrament is a sacred ordinance and should be treated with the same respect as the temple. The Lord has asked that I wear a skirt, I'll wear a skirt. You can argue that is asked of me by the Church and not the Lord, but I argue that it is one in the same. I'll continue to wear a skirt none the less. I understand why I'm going to church on Sunday and it has nothing to do with the people that I find there. It has everything to do with the covenants I have made with my Heavenly Father. I'll answer to him. He created me so that I could do all things through him. He's given me the type of strength that I've only ever seen in women. For that, I'm grateful. I also am grateful for the faithful men that he has placed in my life that hold the Priesthood and have therefore been able to bless my life. In that, we are a partnership, and that is His plan.
Wow. Beautifully, logically, and carefully expressed, Danielle! One of the best and most sensible things I've ever read about women.
ReplyDeleteOkay, I'll bite.
ReplyDeleteFeminists don't look down on women because they want to be "just mothers." That is a strawman attack not based on truth. Saying "women can be things other than mothers" or even "women can be mothers and do other things, too" does not = "women shouldn't just be mothers." If that is what a woman wants to do, then great. But if other women want options, they shouldn't feel looked down, or disapproved of. Its ridiculous to say that there isn't a prejudice.
The problem is that the church puts so MUCH focus on that option alone, and hardly any focus on the many, many other options women can do (with or without children!). I mean, its easy enough for us mothers to dismiss this with a curt nod and act like its no big deal, and it doesn't affect us in any way shape or form, because we LOVE our kids (which, we do). But this is so hurtful for 1) woman who biologically cannot have children, 2) women who never get married and cannot have children and 3) women who just don't feel like they can raise children for whatever reason.
I am not saying families are not important. They are! But families all look different, and some include kids, and some don't. And some women won't ever get to have children in this life. This CANNOT be overlooked and dismissed. And this CANNOT be the only option we highlight for girls.
Plus, no, the Lord has NOT asked us to wear skirts and dresses to church. That is ridiculous beyond words. It is stated in the Bishop's Handbook that there is no restriction for clothing, and its up to the individual. Skirt does not = respect. You can't tell me a $300 tailored pantsuit is not nicer or more appropriate than say, a jean skirt, a top from the mall, and flip flops/sandals...which women wear ALL the time! I have yet to hear someone explain how the fabric between your legs being open or sewn shut has anything to do with respect, modesty, spirituality, femininity, or worthiness.
Not to mention, it makes me sad that she doesn't care to hear more from other women during General Conference. Why wouldn't she?! And the other part that makes me sad? When she references her Heavenly Father loving her...but not her Heavenly Mother. That right there is what bothers me the most about the inequality of visibility of femaleness in the church. This isn't about being "the same" (another strawman), or taking things away from the men (and no, priesthood does not = motherhood. Fatherhood = Motherhood, and women DO receive the priesthood in the temple, we just aren't allowed to use it anymore, which by the way, Joseph Smith encouraged and women used to do all the time).
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First of all, the basis of what the Church teaches is all about focusing on the family. All I hear you talk about is women. Women are part of the bigger picture. I am 28, not married, no children and am preparing to have a career. Like the Church teaches. The Church preaches education all the time. Not just to better yourself as a mother but to prepare yourself to take care of yourself should you not have the opportunity to get married or have children. The CEO of Deseret Book is a woman who is very prevalent in the Church. Has anyone asked her to weigh in on this issue and how she feels about this? The Church has never come out and criticized her for not being married or have children. No they promote her and have her advocate for women all over the world. Her role in this church is vital, even though she is not standing up at General Conference every six months. That's because she holds a position in the business side of the Church, not the leadership side. There are always women at Conference and not that I wouldn't want to hear from them. I love it when the women talk. However, I listen to Conference to hear the message that the Lord has in store for us. I listen to hear the Prophet of the Lord. My point was that the Lord has asked us to wear a skirt to the temple. Have you tried walking into a temple in a pants suit? They have skirts there for you to wear, should you show up in a skirt. My point is, that although the brethren have not asked us to come to church in a skirt, that's my opinion because that is what I wear when I enter the Lord's house so that is what I will wear.
DeleteAlso, please don't mention sacred things, especially regarding the temple that should be not discussed outside the temple, on my blog, much less the internet.
DeleteI don't understand why some feel the need to carry the priesthood responsibilities as well as their own church callings on top of those that women are inherently given. Do we not already have enough to do? It would not be fair to put so many burdens upon our shoulders alone. Men are called to provide, watch over and minister to gods children in specific ways; women do the same, in other specific ways and I’m not just talking about motherhood. Yes we have an inborn ability that men can never have, but I feel women are also given a greater "dose" if you will of the spirit because the role of motherhood is not easy! It can be daily wearing on your body mind and spirit, mind you I’m talking in general terms because there will always be exceptions to the rule. if you do not understand the role of women in general pray about it, study up on it or go speak with your bishop, if you still don’t understand go speak with your stake president, if you can’t live without that mantel of responsibility then join a church that will cater to your needs but do not think that the lord will just change his perfectly organized church just for the whim of a few women who don’t understand or agree with the way that god himself designed it.
DeleteJust want to say a couple of things. First of all, Heavenly Mother is rarely mentioned because Heavenly Father loves Her so much and respects Her sacred role so much that He doesn't want people defiling Her name as His is. It is out of profound love that she isn't really spoken of. That right there shows how much He appreciates women. Secondly: Church shouldn't be a platform for such a "protest." We go to church to partake of a very important and sacred ordinance. That should be our focus, not what we wear. The church handbook doesn't say women have to wear skirts. But don't we want to dress our best for the Lord? If we feel our best is pants, that's fine. The Lord knows the intent of our heart. Thirdly: if any woman or man feels women should have the priesthood, then take your petition to the Lord. Wearing pants to church as a protest isn't going to change anything. Sincere prayer and fasting changes things as long as it is the right thing. Lastly: Do we really think the Lord would want so much contention between us over such a temporal matter as wearing pants to church? The devil is the only one involved when there is contention, so nothing will be accomplished if the Lord does not abide. There is contention on both sides...it's not one-sided. If you want to know if there is a right or wrong here, take it to the Lord in prayer and you will find your answer.
DeleteIts fine to discuss the temple ritual, as long as you don't repeat the words. It is talked about plenty on LDS.org in talks, not to mention in the visitor center where they show pictures of the rooms and describe the events that transpire there. Its widely known, and not "secret" that Mormons receive priesthood and garments in the temple. Its discussed in books, talks, etc that anyone could buy and read.
DeleteAgain, its not about "pants" ...it is about letting the leadership know that there are members who want more revelation.
The sad thing is that gut reactions are led by fear. And this is exactly the kind of responses, ver batim, that some Mormons responded with when the Church was discussing blacks receiving the priesthood. Now, we'd think it was so silly to think anything else. History will tell all.
I don't understand why it is so difficult to believe that some women feel CALLED to serve and to use their spiritual gifts. That they yearn for connection with the feminine divine. That they want to know more about their own personal salvation and roles in the hereafter. That they want their daughters to grow up not just hearing, but SEEING that the church values women's voices and visibility.
Its not selfish, its using the gifts that God has blessed us with.
Beyond that, she says she doesn't "judge" women who are doing this, but then in the next paragraph she slyly alludes that anyone who feels that there isn't enough visibility of women in the church is acting like a "selfish, spoiled brat." Or, maybe their spirit is yearning for more knowledge of their Heavenly Mother, or maybe they feel called to bless and use the gifts of the spirit, or maybe they need to hear more wisdom from other women to nurture their feminine side. These things are important to some women, and quite frankly, it boggles my mind that its not important to ALL women, AND men. I personally know the women who started this event, and they are not doing it out of hatred or envy. But its a whole lot easier to dismiss others' pain when you can blame them for it, eh? Same old tired, tactics...over and over. Never changes. :/
ReplyDeleteFeminism is not the bad guy here. We need to move out of the 19th century, already. For heavens sake, people. How do you think garments changed from being to the ankle and wrist and high necks?! How do you think they changed to two piece from one piece? How do you think our skirts went from ankle to knee high? How do you think our sleeves went from wrist to shoulder? And you all are using the same, dang arguments the old biddies from the Victorian era used. Its amazing how the rhetoric never changes, never dies. The same old excuses and justifications...lets move past that, okay? Lets be on the right side of history again, we used to do it all the time!!! (did you know Utah allowed women to vote before the rest of the country did? And we also provided the first woman state senator!) And now here we are centuries later, moving BACKWARDS again. Our church is a church of CHANGE and REVELATION. Why are you all fighting it???? Its a GOOD thing!
@Jenny Smith,
ReplyDeleteWe do not reference our Heavenly Mother as much as we do our Heavenly Father because she is so sacred, and Heavenly Father wants it that way. I am not going to argue with all of your points (even though i very well could) because that would be in the spirit of contention, and I think the spirit is necessary when receiving any answer to any question or doubt that you may be having . As Danielle said, i go to church to renew my sacred covenants that i made with my Heavenly Father. The wonderful thing about our church is that times change, but the gospel does not. Yes, new laws have been given and certain circumstances require specific revelation, but the gospel will always remain unchanged, and that is because it is perfect. Don't misunderstand when i say the church is perfect that the people are too, because they are not. I wear my sunday best to church because yes, we are asked to. If you feel you need to wear pants to church to help you better feel the spirit and come closer to God, go for it! do what is best for YOU, and not what you think everyone else should do. I hope you took this issue up with the Lord and in your prayers, because then you will know for sure what you must do. and if you get the answer to do this? then do it. But unless the Lord has given you specific instruction to change something about the church, i wouldn't. Please don't look at this like we are attacking you, as you are sharing your insight with us we are doing the same with you. again, take this issue up with the Lord and no one else.
Actually, that is not true. There is no "rule" that we are not supposed to mention our Heavenly Mother. That has been a cultural (misguided) norm, and has been refuted by many church leaders. If you search LDS.org, you'll see there are plenty of talks that talk about our Heavenly Mother specifically, and many more that talk about Heavenly Parents.
DeleteWe got the Word of Wisdom because Emma saw there was a problem (she was sick and tired of cleaning up spittle off the floor!) and she said "There needs to be a revelation about this!" And what did Joseph do? He went and ASKED and voila! New doctrine. What if Emma had been too "long suffering, patient, and kind"? What if she had just "grinned and bear it"? What if she had just assumed that God must want her to do this, because He hadn't said otherwise, and it wasn't up to her to point out problems? Our church was started with questioning God and wondering WHY? And is this RIGHT? And our church is STILL based on that.
If we don't ask, it won't ever change. God does not come to us, He waits for US to come to HIM. And the leaders of the church will never realize how it important it is to ask for more revelation on women's roles within the church until they hear people care about it.
The exact same thing happened with blacks and the priesthood. They had to ask, they had to ponder, they had to question, and discuss, and finally, after years of trying to convince all 12 of the apostles that this is what the Lord wanted, it was passed. He is waiting for us to realize its important. He's waiting for us to ask.
a true woman of worth knows her worth. there is no boasting about it. she prays in secret, and she loves her virtue.
ReplyDeleteThis is an issue of culture not the Church Doctrine. Take on the culture, that's totally fine. I am not from Utah but am from the east coast, the culture here is ridiculous. That's the people, not the Church. All I hear from the feminist side is me, me, me, I, I, I. There have been studies that tell us that children in a two parent household where one stays home with them, do better in school, are more likely to go to college, and are less likely to mess up. Why fight this? All the Church is teaching is to quit being so focused on what the world can do for you and focus instead on what you can do for the world. To raise children to walk in the ways of the Lord is divine. If you never have the opportunity to raise children, fine, great. I was also married for five years and was devastated when I never had kids. I'm grateful now, as I'm not tied to a father that I am no longer married to. Does this make me any less of a woman? No, not at all. I plan on having a career. If I have the opportunity to get married and have kids, that's what I'll do. Will I still have a career, probably because those kids will eventually grow up. The strongest, happiest women I know are women who are the mother's of my friends that raised their children in the Gospel and now are being fulfilled in whatever capacity they would like. My own mother could not stay at home with me and my sisters. She would have loved to. Those were her decisions because she had to. The Church teaches not to get into a situation where you don't have any other choice. I don't think there is any problem with that. Everything the Church teaches is about freedom. If you don't understand that, then you should search the doctrine further and go to your Heavenly Father and ask him for more guidance.
ReplyDeleteI'm not LDS, but live in Utah. From an outsider looking in, many see the inequaity women face in the Mormon church. A lot is not taught overall, you have to truely research what you are being told...test it with the only word of God, Bible, and see. I read this: The Role of Women in Mormonism (Jessica Longaker, Religious Studies 263,March 27, 1995). So should every woman.... And just to make it very clear...I LOVE ALL MY MORMON FRIENDS. They are all truely great, loving people.
Delete@TNS I appreciate your comments and commend you for living in Utah and not being Mormon, couldn't be easy. I read this article by this woman that you referenced and just have this to say. I never fully trust anything that is written by someone who is looking down on what they are claiming to do an unbiased study of. I am an anthropology major and am currently doing a study on women and the church. It's a little different approach then this particular article as I am trying to leave my bias and opinion out of it which is clearly what she did not do. She spouts off her opinion as fact and as such makes her arguments null and void. She is interpreting doctrine how she wants it to be interpreted to push her own agenda. My overall point is this. The distinction between the genders is not an inequality but rather just that, a difference in the genders. Just because we do not hold the priesthood does not mean that we are any less important in our role in the church than the men. Saying that our primary responsibility is to rear children is not oppression, especially when no one is upset that the men are told that their primary responsibility is to provide for their families and in this economy is a HUGE burden. We both have our roles, and those roles are preached over the pulpit and told to do our best. No one has ever said that we won't go to heaven if we aren't mothers and perfect wives.
DeleteAfter reading some of the comments on here as well as your FB page... Isn't the underlying question, WHY YOU ARE GOING TO CHURCH? It really doesn't matter what you dress like as long as it's your very best. God knows your intent and rightly so inspires his messengers to take issue with it if needs be. If you're going to church to make a statement about rights whether its feminist, black, LGBT, etc. you are really missing the point why we are going to church at all. I'm saddened by some of the comments of this post being aimed with malicious intent. DJ is pretty open, whether you feel that is reflected or not in her writing. Get to know her better and get a better understanding why she feels the way does and allow her politely the opportunity to see whats good in your life. No biggie, just no need for harsh words.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletelol and I agree that Utah Mormon culture is pretty narrow. The farther you get, the more mainstream the culture becomes. However, political views are encouraged by the church albeit not encouraged to have the church as its platform.
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